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ABC RN “Breakfast” – Israeli organisation responds to Netanyahu’s Australian interview (22-8-25)

 

[Sally Sara]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has again criticised Australian Prime Minister calling Anthony Albanese weak. Mr Netanyahu has accused Mr Albanese and other Western leaders who back a Palestinian state of trying to, quote, appease terror groups like Hamas.

 

[PM Netanyahu]

The Western leaders, including unfortunately in Australia, are doing. They’re trying to feed the crocodile of militant Islam that has claimed the lives not only of Jews but Christians and Arabs, many Muslims and so on. And they think they’ll pacify, they’ll appease the crocodile.

No, it won’t. The more you pour fuel into this anti-Semitic, anti-Israel and anti-Western fire, the greater the fire will grow. It will consume you in the end.

 

[Sally Sara]

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu speaking to Sky News last night. Well, Jamie Hyams is the director of public affairs for the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council and joins me now. Jamie, welcome to Radio National Breakfast.

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Thanks for having me.

 

[Sally Sara]

What did you make of Benjamin Netanyahu’s interview last night?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Well, I think he made some very good points. You know, he made it in his own inimitable way. And he’s, as you say, he doubled down on his criticism of Mr Albanese.

But I can understand why he’s disappointed that we have recognised the Palestinian state. I mean, Hamas has claimed that it’s a reward for terrorism. And I know there’s some dispute about who said what.

But, you know, the senior Hamas official Ghazi Hamad said that France’s recognition of the Palestinian state was fruits of the October 7 attacks. And that was before we even recognised. And I think it’s a bit baffling as to how it was that Mr Albanese set down some very reasonable preconditions for recognition of the Palestinian state, including that Hamas has to be gone, that there needs to be significant reform of the Palestinian Authority, that any Palestinian state can’t pose a security threat to Israel.

And then, you know, within a matter of weeks has basically abandoned those preconditions, predicated on some promises that he got from Mahmoud Abbas, who’s been promising the same thing for years. So, and it does seem to be as a result of internal pressure. So from that perspective, I think that’s why he was suggesting that Mr Albanese and other Western leaders have been weak in recognising the Palestinian state.

 

[Sally Sara]

Some of the language that Mr Netanyahu has been using, including terms like appease and appeasement, what do you think about the use of those terms? Is that the right way to get the message across to Australia?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Well, I think, I mean, it does sound a bit apocalyptic in a way, but he made the point that he’s not saying that, practically speaking, militant Islam will be able to take over the West. There is no doubt that the way militant Islam sees it, and the way Hamas sees it, is that first of all, you get rid of the little Satan, which is Israel, which is in the way, and then you can take over the Middle East and turn it into Islamic caliphate. And then maybe, you know, many, many years down the track, you know, and they see these things in hundreds of years, perhaps there will be an Islamic takeover of the world.

And I think the way that we should have gone about…

 

[Sally Sara]

Do you really think that?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

I think they think that. That’s the point. That’s what, you know, when they talk about Israel, they talk about Israel being like the Crusaders, because, you know, the Crusaders hung around for 200 years, but then they left under pressure.

So, you know, they see it all in very long historical terms. And I think the way that the West should have gone about trying to end this war, rather than condemning Israel, is you put the pressure on Hamas. You put pressure on Qatar to throw out Hamas leaders.

You put pressure on other countries and host them like Turkey. And you put the pressure on them. You make sure that they understand that the West is on Israel’s side.

And that way, you would have had more pressure on Hamas. Marco Rubio very rightly said that Hamas was on the verge of signing a ceasefire deal that Israel had already agreed to. France came out and said they were going to recognise a Palestinian state, and all of a sudden, Hamas walked away from the table.

 

[Sally Sara]

What do you think needs to happen with Australia’s relationship now with Israel? Does the language need to be walked back? Or do you support the language that’s being used on both sides at the moment?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

I would, I mean, you know, as a very patriotic Australian, and also as someone who loves Israel, it breaks my heart to see our two great countries that have had such a productive and friendly relationship for so many years come to this point. And again, I can understand Mr Netanyahu’s anger. I don’t necessarily agree with all of his tactics, but I can understand his anger because there has been a lot of flak coming from Australia’s government towards Israel and towards him personally.

But I don’t think it’s edifying for either side to do that. And I think Mr Tony Burke’s comments were also appalling. And I think it would be better for everyone if perhaps they had a civil, you know, somewhere along the lines, they had a civil conversation.

They tried to understand each other’s perspectives and tried to dial it back a bit and try to re-establish the relationship as it was.

 

[Sally Sara]

I’m interested in your view. What was it about Tony Burke’s comments that was appalling? He was talking about strength not being measured in the number of people going hungry and the people being also bombed as well.

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Well, the implication was that Netanyahu and Israel are trying to show their strength by killing innocent people and by starving people, which is a real…

 

[Sally Sara]

Israel cut off aid in March, didn’t it?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Yes. Okay. So Israel cut off aid in March for nine weeks.

And according to the rules of law, you are entitled to cut off aid if you’re concerned it’s not going where it should be going. And Hamas was stealing it. Hamas is using that aid to sell it, to pay its fighters, to recruit fighters, to help the people who were on its side.

And Israel had flooded during the ceasefire that was before that. Israel had flooded Gaza with enough aid to have lasted months. So that was…

I mean, tactically it was an appalling idea.

 

[Sally Sara]

Humanitarian groups are saying that there wasn’t enough food sent in. Do you accept that there’s starvation, that there’s been starvation happening in some parts of Gaza?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Yes, I do. And the humanitarian groups say that, but it’s also been shown that the UN only counts the aid that it brings in itself. So when you get these figures of how many truckloads and so on are going in, they discount the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and various other aid groups and only count some of it.

So you’re getting an incomplete picture. But yes, there is starvation in Gaza. There is deprivation in Gaza.

But the reason for that is that Hamas is stealing so much food. There’s a UN organisation called UNOPS, and they give a day-to-day tracker of how much food, how many trucks are going into Gaza and how many are actually reaching where they should go. And it always shows that of…

I think it was something like 4,600 trucks that went into Gaza since May 19 that they’ve counted, and that doesn’t include a lot of trucks they haven’t counted. Of those, 552 reached their destination, and the rest were intercepted. And those are the UN’s own figures, which shows that the aid is going in, but it’s not getting to the people who need it because Hamas keeps on intercepting it.

 

[Sally Sara]

It’s been intercepted by a range of people, including Hamas. And just to your comments earlier, you were critical of Hamas in terms of not taking part in negotiations in earlier stages of the conflict. Israel didn’t move into phase two of the agreed process previously, and currently there’s a 60-day ceasefire on the table, which Israel also is not willing to go ahead with at the moment, correct?

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Well, when you say Israel didn’t move into phase two, Hamas wasn’t moving into phase two either. That was a timed ceasefire. And at the end of the ceasefire, Hamas wasn’t releasing any more hostages, wasn’t negotiating anymore, and was taking that time to build up its strength.

So Israel resumed hostilities. At the moment, Hamas does seem to have agreed to the two-stage deal. Israel is talking tough on it, but it’s also saying that it’ll send negotiators back to the negotiating table.

But Israel does want a deal for the end of the war. But Hamas also has this habit of saying, yes, we agree to a deal, and then putting in a whole bunch of other conditions that weren’t in the deal that Israel can’t agree with. So I would like to see an end of hostilities.

Everyone would like to see an end of hostilities. There’s been a deal on the table for a long time for Hamas fighters to lay down their arms, for Hamas leaders to be given free passage to another country and release the hostage, and the war ends straight away.

 

[Sally Sara]

Jamie Hyams, we’ll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.

 

[Jamie Hyams]

Thanks very much for having me.